Now! Then! Questions from the floor of the Leeds Chamber of Commerce to the explorer and missionary David Livingstone during his exposition of the wonders of Africa

10 October 1857: Questions from the floor of the Leeds Chamber of Commerce to the explorer and missionary David Livingstone during his exposition of the wonders of Africa

An early 19th century South African broad-tailed sheep (Daniell 1806).

Leeds Mercury. 1857/10/13. Dr. Livingstone in Leeds. Leeds. Get it:

Excerpt

The mayor said that two questions had been handed to him. The first was: Would sheep live in the interior of Africa, and would it be desirable to send out any? The second: Had the natives any method of cleansing cotton? Dr Livingstone replied that the highlands had sheep upon them; but the African sheep did not produce wool – only hair. The goat seemed to produce a kind of wool which would be valuable in manufactures. He once saw a sheep with wool, upon Benguela, but the wool was not fine by any means. He found in the Cape Colony that the the woolled sheep were generally spreading to the north, and every year there was an increase in the exportation of wool. But, as he before said, the first thing to be done was to endeavour to get a way open, and then they would be better able to give an opinion as to what should be sent out to South Central Africa. As to the cleansing of cotton, he found on the west side that the natives used their fingers at only; but on the east side they used an iron roller to separate the pile from the seed.

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To facilitate reading, the spelling and punctuation of elderly excerpts have generally been modernised, and distracting excision scars concealed. My selections, translations, and editions are copyright.

Abbreviations

Comment

A vision of globalising businessmen slavering at the thought of labour potentially available to “the nation that loves the black man,” at a fraction of Yorkshire prices.

Clarification welcome re W.E. Forster’s comments on cotton – “one raw material, the restriction of which was threatening this country just now with one of the greatest disasters that could occur.” Here‘s the average cotton price at Liverpool 1811-1900, so he’s presumably talking about some perceived threat:

Original: “As to the cleansing of cotton, he found on the west side that the natives used their fingers at only; but on the west side they used an iron roller to separate the pile from the seed.” I think he meant east/west.

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Original

DR. LIVINGSTONE IN LEEDS.
COMMERCIAL RESOURCES OF CENTRAL AFRICA.
IMPORTANT MEETING.
By invitation of the Leeds Chamber of Commerce, an influential meeting of members of that body, a deputation from the Chamber of Commerce of Bradford and of commercial gentlemen of this borough, took place in the hall of the Stock-Exchange, on Saturday afternoon last, to hear an address from the Rev. Dr. Livingstone, the intrepid African explorer, “On the Commercial Resources of Central Africa.” Upon entering the hall, accompanied by Viscount Goderich, M.P., and Edward Baines, Esq. (of whom Dr. Livingstone was a guest during his stay in Leeds), the Rev. Doctor was greeted with loud and reiterated plaudits. Amongst the gentlemen present – in addition to Viscount Goderich and Mr. Baines – we observed – the Mayor of Leeds (John Botterill, Esq.) the Mayor of Bradford (Henry Brown, Esq.), P. Fairbairn, Esq., T. W. George, Esq., Wm. Pawson, Eq., E. Irwin, Esq., F. Lupton, Esq., J. Bateson, Esq., J. P. Clapham, Esq., Geo. Tatham, Esq., Wilson Armistead, Esq., W. E. Hepper, Esq., Henry Ludolf, Esq., Leeds; John Rand, Esq., Jacob Behrens, Esq., R. Milligan, Esq., W. E. Forster, Esq., C. Hardy, Esq., H. W. Sachs, Esq., Mr. Ald. Mitchell, and Mr. John Darlington (Secretary), deputation from the Bradford Chamber of Commerce; W. S. Ward, Esq., J. Pollard, Esq., – Dickenson, Esq., George Wright, Esq., Robert Frost, Esq., T. Dawson, Esq., A. Ritchie, Esq., George Geoghegan, Esq., W. St. J. Wheelhouse, Esq., W. N. Myers, Esq., R. Binney, Esq., R. Bissington, Esq., J. Knight, Esq., H. Hudson, Esq.; the Rev. J. H. Morgan, the Rev. N. Greenwell, the Rev. E. Brown, &c.

Upon the motion of T. W. GEORGE, Esq., seconded by P. FAIRBAIRN, Esq.,

The MAYOR of LEEDS was called to the chair. His Worship, in opening the meeting, said that he felt it to be a high honour to introduce to their notice the most eminent among the many distinguished travellers of modern days – Dr. Livingstone, who had traversed that region of Africa which had been thought to be nothing but a sandy desert, swept by the burning sands, or, what was worse, the blasting breath of the simoon; instead of which he had discovered a country abounding in everything which could conduce to the comforts and conveniences of life, with a population docile, ingenious, and ready to adopt those habits of civilization which are most beneficial to the best and highest interests of mankind. (Applause.) Without taking up their time with any remarks of his own, he would at once introduce to the meeting the Rev. Dr. Livingstone. (Applause.)

Dr. LIVINGSTONE was received with hearty and prolonged applause on rising to address the audience. Without any prefatory observations, the Rev. Doctor at once proceeded to say that the eastern portion of Africa had long been partially known to the Portuguese; but they never seemed to have had any idea of the central part of the country. They had command of a portion of land on the borders, and different Portuguese authors, who had written upon the subject, represented it as a very rich and fertile country indeed. One of these writers, Senhor Botello [Sebastião Xavier Botelho], was governor of Mozambique, and he gave a glowing description of the country, but his information was derived from natives who had gone into the interior. He mentioned a great variety of products, and believed that almost anything might be done with the country. But these writings seemed to have had very little effect. Now, however, that an Englishman had happened to go across the country much more attention was paid to it than ever had been before. (Hear, hear.) When he (Dr. Livingstone) went into the central part of Africa he found that the people had no trade. The first part of the new country discovered was that round Lake Ngami, and there he saw the ivory left to rot upon the ground. He himself saw eight instances where the tusks of elephants were allowed to rot amongst the other bones; and the natives were surprised to find that Europeans were anxious to purchase them. So it was with the country beyond Lake Ngami. He visited the land a little above the falls of Mosiotunya [Victoria Falls], formerly the territories of the tribe of the Batoka. There he found the chiefs’ graves ornamented with seventy large tusks, and others on the graves of their relatives. He also found that the women wore armlets of ivory, but the people had no means of exporting it, and it was of very little value indeed. The Portuguese have a tradition that two black men at one period went from the farthest northern settlements to the nearest eastern settlements; they were called, in the Portuguese history of Angola, “the Black Traders;” but they did not know the river Zambesi, which began in a large central basin, came from the north to the east, and found its way out of the valley by means of an immense fissure caused by some convulsion of nature. That he believed to be an English discovery; and instead of a sandy desert, swallowing up all the rivers, they had a very fertile country indeed. There were elevations on each side of this central part of the country, and a different kind of climate. When he went into the country, he travelled in a waggon drawn by oxen – the usual mode of conveyance in the southern part of the continent; but when he reached the central part of the country, the waggon was of no use. He was obliged to leave the waggon at Linyanti; he left it for two years standing in the town, and there he believed it stands to this day. At Linyanti he was obliged to mount an ox and proceed in this way to Loando. As he travelled, he found the country the very antipodes of what it was believed to be. There were immense forests of gigantic trees; the trees were surrounded by climbing plants, and mosses and ferns grew in profusion – all betokening a moist climate. When he went from Linyanti to Loando it was the rainy season; and they had rain every day for months together, and especially just before daybreak, when there commenced remarkably heavy showers, without any warning drops. Everything he had with him got mouldy and rotten. His small gipsey tent became mouldy and rotten, and he was obliged to place a blanket over his face to protect it from the rain. The people of that part had plenty of food-producing plants, such as are used amongst them – the chief being manioc or cassava, from which tapioca is made. They had also the millet, the ground yam, and other tropical food; indeed there was no lack of that description of food in that part of the country; the people only wanted animal food. As they approached towards the west coast, they came to a still more fertile country. When he reached the valley of Cassange, (which bounds the Portuguese settlements), he saw vegetation more luxuriant than anything he had ever seen before. The grass was so long that as he sat upon his ox he had to hold up his hand or a stick to keep it out of his eyes; and every morning he had one side of his body wet by the dew. Some Portuguese, he found, lived in that valley, pursuing a trade in ivory and bees-wax. There was in that part an abundance of bees-wax; and the people, having a market for it, carefully tended the bees and placed hives over them, to save all the wax. The only other article of commerce was ivory, which came down in large quantities, and the tusks were larger than in the southern part of the country. He found, as he proceeded, the country fertile, and the people cultivating cotton; and saw the women going to the cotton gardens with the spindle and distaff in their hands. The Portuguese commandant told him that if he had a few hundred pounds he would create a revolution in the commerce of the country. He asked the commandant how he would proceed. He replied that “he would begin by purchasing up all the cotton that the people produced, and all the tapioca; that the next year the people would cultivate the cotton in very large quantities; and that in the year following he should become rich.” He (Dr. Livingstone) put that down in his journal at the time; but he did not then know that there was an actual want of cotton in his own country. At the present time, they could scarcely say that the cotton was cultivated at all. As they passed along they frequently found the men engaged in cleaning cotton; and there were certain spots used by the traders as sleeping places. The people, in cleaning the cotton, threw the seeds about these sleeping places, and cotton was found growing all round them. Although, as would be perceived, this was not to be called cultivation, yet it yielded to the Portuguese government a considerable revenue in cotton cloth, used for clothing the people of Brazil. In Cassange he found that the tribute was 1,600 cloths. These were spun by the women and woven by the men. The question had been asked, Could cotton be produced without slave labour? It was difficult to put new ideas into some minds; and some thought that as cotton is produced by slave labour in America, it could not be produced without it in Africa. But the population of Angola was between 500,000 and 600,000 souls, of whom only from 5 to 7 per cent. were slaves. That was according to the census given by the Government of Loando. In some places the number of slaves was as low as 3 per cent. of the population. Cotton was produced by free labour. The rest of the population were farmers, boot makers, &c.; and he might mention that he bought a pair of very good boots, extending above his knees, for 5s. 8d. They might get any kind of skilled labour for about 4d. per day. That was the general rate of payment of the country. Unskilled labour might be obtained for 2d. per day, or even less, if the wages were paid in the usual currency of the country – English calico. The people of Angola exported goods, without roads, to the value of £103,000 or £105,000 annually. Every ounce of this produce was brought to the coast on the heads or shoulders of men, by forced labour. When the British cruisers became so active in 1845, then the Portuguese were unable longer to pursue the system, which they had so long pursued, of going into the country to purchase ivory and bees-wax, and men to carry them to the coast – produce and men being without difficulty exported. But when, as he had said, Her Majesty’s cruisers became so active, the Portuguese had to adopt what was called “the carrier system.” This system was, that the Governor of Loando commanded the different chiefs to supply a certain number of men to carry goods to the coast, at the rate of about 2d. per day; and the whole of these goods were carried down to the coast on the heads or shoulders of men. Suppose highways had been made to the interior – and some governors had attempted to construct them – the produce of the country would have been spoken of, not in tens of thousands, but in millions sterling annually, the country being so exceedingly fertile. Amongst the products he might mention coffee, which was introduced by a Jesuit Padre 250 years ago. The Jesuit brought some seeds of Mocha coffee, and planted them in one of the monasteries. This coffee propagated itself to a distance of 200 to 300 miles from the coast. Every day when he (Dr. Livingstone) was there, the Portuguese were discovering new plantations of coffee; and all they had to do was to cut away the brushwood and leave the larger trees; and then they had the best coffee he had ever tasted. He presumed that it had been propagated by birds, as there was no tradition of the Jesuits having been so far as 300 miles in the interior. He had himself visited several of these plantations of what might be called indigenous coffee. (Hear, hear.) They had also indigo. (Hear, hear.) It had been denied by some that this was the real indigo; but he found the people dyeing blue with it. (Hear, hear.) They had vats for dyeing their clothes with it. He had seen the operation going on, and the people coming down to the West coast with small balls of indigo for sale. Whether true indigo or not, it grew wild in the country, it most certainly dyed blue, and its production might be extended with benefit to this country and to the people themselves. (Applause.) The country also produced palm oil. He was astonished to observe that very able and usually accurate newspaper, the London Examiner stating that the palm oil did not grow in that part of Africa; but he saw it growing – he saw the natives carrying jars of palm oil to the coast – he saw ships lading with it – and casks of palm oil in Loando. There was also the ground nut; but this was not so much cultivated by the people under the Portuguese as by the people beyond, who brought in oil from the ground nut for exportation. He saw that done every day, – it was as common as seeing cabs in the streets of Leeds. (Hear, hear.) The country also produced sugar and wheat. It seemed strange to Englishmen that this country should have been so long in the hands of the Portuguese, and yet that they should have done so little with it. He had also been struck with this circumstance, and expressed his surprise to the authorities at Loando, and published his opinion in the official newspaper, the Bulletin. They had on that side, and on the East, a gradual ascent from the coast to the high lands, which were 5,000 feet above the level of the sea. No person would form any idea of the fertility of the inland country: when he got 500 miles inland, the forests of timber were the finest he had ever seen. He had never seen them excelled in America; and they resembled very much those he had seen in Brazil. Near the coast there was the palm oil of commerce – grape-bearing vines – and a great variety of the fig tribe. He counted twenty-two specimens of the genus picus, some of which resembled the banyan of India, and sent down drop shoots. Wheat also grew there luxuriantly; he saw it growing; and, was able to show his men, for the first in their lives, the corn which the white people eat. But though this country would produce almost anything, the colonial system of the Portuguese was not calculated to develope its capabilities. The Portuguese were military colonists, and all who went out obtained a grade of rank, a captain on going out becoming a major, and so on. These men got the command of the different districts into which Angola is divided, and were like our collectors in India. They collected the tribute and administered the laws, and had the power to put in practice a good deal of extortion. The object of these gentlemen was to get a little money, and return to Portugal as soon as possible. So little did they know of the differences of climate in the interior that the Judges in Portugal, till a recent period, sentenced criminals of the deepest dye to banishment in those high lands. Now, however, they knew that they were the most healthy portions of the country, and did not sentence their criminals to go inland. (Hear, hear.) There were, as he had said, no roads; and he thought the meeting would see the reason. Each governor had only three years of office. Different governors had begun to form a pathway into the interior, but the tenure of office being so short, not one of them had been able to push the line of road any distance into the interior. The palm oil trade was an example of what could be done in this part of Western Africa; for he believed he was right in stating that previous to 1845, there was scarcely any trade in palm oil; but now both palm and sweet oils were obtained from Western Africa to the value of upwards of one million sterling annually. If they possessed good roads, England would get millions of pounds of cotton yearly; for he knew that the people were very fond of commerce. (Hear, hear.) As he passed through the country he found them selling cotton, and knives which they made themselves, and every kind of food which they possessed. He saw women running with food on their heads for sale to every sleeping station, as soon as a band made their appearance. On the West they had no roads; but it was different on the other side of the country; and though Angola was the best country for providing the raw materials of our manufactures, yet, having no roads, the other side of the country was in some respects preferable. There they had a large river, the Zambesi, which in the central country flowed from the north to the south, and then turning found its way out to the east. If they went there, they would have a large river sufficient for the purposes of commerce; and he had the authority of Lieutenant Hoskins and Captain Parker for stating that from the mouth of the Zambesi fur 70 miles inland the water was sufficient for commercial purposes; and Lieut. Hoskins said that he should have no objection to take up a vessel of the capacity of the gunboat which he lately commanded. Above that there was, 300 miles from the sea, a coal field. There had been a good deal of volcanic action in the country, and the coal had been tilted up to the surface, where he found nine seams, one of them being 68 inches thick. Round that field they had gold. Gold washing had been pursued by the Portuguese for a very long period of time; but he did not say much about the gold, as he placed more value upon the iron and coal. (Hear, hear.) Both iron and coal were in abundance; and there was no obstruction between the sea and the coal; but there was an obstruction between the sea and the healthy high lands beyond. Above Tete there was a rapid; but the river being full he did not see it. He proposed to his men to leave the Zambesi and take a short cut across the country to the Zambesi again. In that way, he missed the only rapid in 600 miles of river. Supposing they got past that rapid, they would have 300 miles more of the river, which might be navigated at all seasons of the year with flat-bottomed boats. Then they reached the high land, which would be of great importance as a station for commercial and missionary purposes. (Applause.) For there they would be able to work without that loss of life which they had to deplore on the coast. (Hear, hear.) Here, again, he had to dispel the delusion of those who held the theory that nothing ex-tropical could be grown within the tropics. Those who clung to this belief could have no idea of the extent to which altitude changed the temperature. Upon this high land, Mr. Moffatt, when on a visit to Moselekatse, saw the Angora goat, or some animal so closely resembling it that the two were not distinguishable. The resemblance extended to the long hair, which gave the animal the appearance of walking without feet. But the Examiner declared that the Angora goat could not live there a week; nevertheless, it was there indigenous. He knew that the farmers at the Cape had sent to Asia for the Angora at a very heavy cost, whilst this same goat, though they knew it not, was indigenous to the interior of the country, – or one as like it as two sixpences. He took there the Makololo half-breed of the said Angora goat, and there they lived, to his knowledge, three years. It was always dangerous to prophesy, and the Examiner had been most unfortunate on that occasion. (Applause.) At Tete they had wheat growing luxuriantly. The Zambesi flooded large tracts of land every year, and the women sowed the wheat, without any previous ploughing. They turned up a little soil with the hoe, dropped the seeds into the ground, pressed the soil down with the foot, and four months afterwards they had a good crop of wheat. (Hear, hear.) He was told by the Portuguese that at Zumbo the wheat was twice the size of that grown at Tete. There were now very few exports from the Zambesi river, but in former times the Portuguese exported indigo, wheat, and sugar, as well as ivory and gold dust. At present the Americans exported from the Zambesi large quantities of Columba root. The Portuguese said the Americans took it away to use it as a dye-stuff. He did not himself know whether the Americans used the Columba root as a dye-stuff; but that was the impression of the Portuguese; and lisa see aed object in mentioning it was to remark that if it were an export by the Americans, of course it was a profitable export. (Hear, hear.) The Americans also exported some oil, as well as the sesamum seed, from which, he believed, a good oil was manufactured. He found at Tete that a variety of the cucumber was cultivated, from the seeds of which was made a very fine oil. It might seem to some a strange idea to get oil from such a thing as a cucumber, but he was rather prepared to find this so. In the course of his medical reading he found that a celebrated physician in America recommended the oil of cucumber in certain complaints, as the mildest of all oils; and when he arrived at Tete and found that the people cultivated an immense quantity of cucumbers (not of the same shape and colour as ours, but of the same family), he was curious to know if they were eaten. He was informed that they were not, but that the seeds were used for the manufacture of oil, and that this oil was a very good salad oil. (Hear, hear.) He was quits prepared for thia by the statement of the American physician to whom he had referred; but to the Examiner it seemed like trying to extract sunbeams from cucumbers. (Laughter and applause.) The way in which the commerce of this fine river was destroyed was easily explained; and the Portuguese did not make any secret of the manner in which they lost their trade. In former times they possessed an immense number of slaves. With them they went to the gold washings, and produced a great quantity of gold annually. The slaves also enabled them to cultivate coffee, the sugar cane, and other products, for exportation. When the slave trade began to be very brisk, they played the part of the boy in the fable of the “Goose and the Golden Eggs;” for they sold off all their slaves, thinking that they should be rich at once. But when the slaves had been exported, they found that they had no labour and no soldiers to fight for them. All the tribes around them became their enemies; and the very people who had sold their slaves were forced to emigrate and follow their late slaves to Brazil. (Hear, hear.) The country became in a state of stagnation; and now the Portuguese had no power there, no trade, and lived in that part of the country on sufferance. All the goods imported into the country came from England, in English vessels, by way of Bombay. There were no ships sent from Portugal to trade with; and now the Cape merchants were beginning to send ships along the east coast for the purposes of trade. He was very anxious to make the Zambesi a permanent and open path to the interior. (Hear, hear.) The Portuguese Government had always been friendly to this country; and he hoped that they would agree to this pathway being a free one to all nations. (Applause.) No nation would derive more benefit from it than the Portuguese themselves. (Hear, hear.) For while the Portuguese had a settlement on the coast, they were living there on sufferance. They collected a little ivory and gold dust, but not more of the latter than in 8lbs. or 10lbs. annually; whilst formerly they exported as much as 130lbs. per annum, and had a good many other exports besides. The people in the central country did not know Englishmen, nor were they aware that the English were anxious to engage in commerce with them; but they were all anxious to have commerce with the white men. The people in the central country furnished him with men and oxen, and provisions, and presents for the chiefs through whose country he had to pass, in order to have a path to the sea. These people had on different occasions endeavoured to get a path down to the sea, but they had always been prevented by the tribes on the coast, who wished to be be middlemen between the people of the interior and the white man. That very fact proved the anxiety they had all felt to engage in commerce. Again, when he returned to the central country, and wished to go to the east side of the continent to find out whether the Zambesi was a good water conveyance to the sea, the chief not only furnished him once again with oxen and provisions, but was most anxious to obtain some things from England. In drinking his coffee he (Dr. Livingetone) had for some time used sugar, but it at length fell short. Now, the sugar cane abounded there, but the people had no idea that sugar could be obtained from it. When the chief was told of it, he said, “I will bring you some cane, and you can make yourself sugar.” He explained to the chief that to do so would require a machine; upon which the chief replied, ” Well, when you go to your country you can bring one.” He (Dr. Livingstone) informed him that he was only a poor man, and that it would require something considerable to purchase a machine. The chief immediately responded, “Oh, but there is plenty of ivory,” or in words which meant “All the ivory in the country is yours; and if you leave any of it, it is your own fault.” (Hear, hear, and applause.) That was the statement not of Sekeletu alone, but also of his chief men. The chief also gave him thirty tusks of ivory and 114 men to carry them, together with a number of hoes and provisions; indeed he was always extremely kind to him, although he had lived upon him for a long period. He (Dr. Livingstone) took a commission from the chief which he thought it was his duty to execute. The chief put down everything he wanted from England; and then added, “and anything else pretty that you see in your own country.” (Laughter.) What he principally wanted were articles of clothing and the sugar mill. Now these people were as anxious for a path to the sea as he was to make one to reach them. He wanted to Christianise and civilise them; and they wanted a path to the sea to trade with us. (Applause.) When he arrived at the coast, he sold ten tusks to purchase clothing for his men, and left twenty at Quillimane. He could have sold them to greater advantage if he had brought them to England, but he thought something might occur to him, and he did not wish to create the impression that he had stolen the tusks. (Hear, hear.) He therefore left the twenty tusks in charge of the colonel of the militia in Quillimane, and instructed him, if he (Dr. Livingetone) did not return, to sell them, and give the proceeds to the people of Sekeletu, with an account of his death. The ivory was still at Quillimane; and he intended when he got back to purchase it with his own money. (Hear, hear, hear.) The impression of the people of the interior was, that there is a white tribe that loves the black man, but they did not know that this white tribe was anxious to engage in commerce with them. (Hear, hear.) The people of the interior were so anxious to trade that he was satisfied by lawful commerce that an effectual stop would be put to the slave trade in that quarter. (Loud applause.) If they were told that there was a market for their produce, they might be very easily induced to cultivate cotton. Then would they feel that their interests and ours were identical, – then would the feeling and sympathy of Christian men be drawn to them; and both would be of mutual advantage to each other. (Applause.) At present his intention was to return, accompanied hy a younger brother (the Rev. C. Livingstone) who had come from America for the purpose. He proposed to return to the Zambesi – first endeavouring to induce the Portuguese Government to make the Zambesi a highway for all nations – and, distributing cotton seeds to the chiefs along the river, induse them to cultivate it. (Hear, hear, and applause.) At the same time he would form friendly relations with the people. (Hear, hear.) The palm oil trade was a proof that no large slave establishments were necessary to develope the resources of the country. The people who brought that palm oil to the traders were not slaves. In Calabar and some other places, there were slaves engaged in the production of the palm oil; but in all that district of Angola where the palm oil and cotton were produced, neither was cultivated by slaves, but by free men and free women; and the cotton was spun by free labour. (Applause.) Without detaining the meeting by any further observations, he would conclude by saying that he would be happy to answer any questions that might be put to him respecting the future prospects of that country. (Loud cheering.)

The MAYOR stated that if any gentleman would question Dr. Livingstone upon any subject in connection with his discoveries in South Central Africa, he would be very happy to answer it.

Dr. LIVINGSTONE said that he hd almost forgotten to mention the article of flax, which was of much importance to this district. When he was at Tete, a Portuguese settlement, some news had arrived from England, the most important being that Sebastopol had fallen. There was also information that the Times newspaper had made an offer of £1,000 for a new material suitable for making paper. He was asked if it was likely that the money would be given provided a substance was discovered, to which he replied that no doubt this promise would be fulfilled; at the same time he offered to take any substance they thought proper to England, and get an opinion upon it. They showed him three specimens, one of them a kind of aloe, containing a strong fibre; but the other two were not of any particular value. He took one sample, called boaze, home with him, and submitted it to Messrs. Pye Brothers, of London. They put it through one of their patent processes, and produced a fibre, which they said was a strong fibre, and finer than flax; but they would like to have a larger quantity of it to experiment upon. He (Dr. Livingstone) knew it simply as a substance from which the natives made thread to string their beads upon. They had not been in the habit of using it for cloth, and he saw them making use of cotton for that purpose. That fibre grew on the north banks of the Zambesi: the south was not so fertile as the north; and the country north of fifteen degrees was less fertile than the country south of that latitude. The fibre was not cultivated – it grew wild; and when he asked the Portuguese about the quantity that could be raised, they told him it could be got to any amount. He did not himself see the fibre growing; – it was not flax, and was not mentioned by Dr. Hooker in his botanical work. That was one specimen only which existed in South Central Africa – there were many others which he (Dr. Livingstone) did not know. He passed through the country having only one pair of eyes, and having a great many things to think about; and he paid most attention to the fruits of the country. Some of the fruits which he found were very excellent, but perhaps he was not a good judge, because when he ate them he was generally very hungry, and glad to get anything. (Laughter.) Many of them were very agreeable, – one in particular, which was used by the natives, was something like a date: they took off the fleshy part from the stone, preserved it in bags, and dried it in the sun. There was another fruit from which the natives procured oil. In order to make the oil, they tore off the fleshy part, put it into boiling water, and skimmed off the top. There were several tress that produced fruit capable of yielding oil, which the natives used to anoint their bodies with. One of these trees was very handsome indeed. Unfortunately he never got any of the ripe fruit – he had seen the stones, but was told by some intelligent natives that they used it for making oil. There were also two kinds of castor oil plants. The sesamum (an oily grain) was exported from Mozambique, and the natives put it to various purposes. The new country, in fact, was very fertile, and instead of being a sandy desert, as many supposed, there was every probability that it would produce articles which would be of great use to England. He hoped it would be so, but time was necessary. The first thing required to be done was to have a pathway opened to the healthy high lands – (hear, hear) – then let the impression be produced among the natives that “the nation that loves the black man” was anxious to engage in trade with them, and would purchase any amount of cotton or other articles they could produce. He thought these were the two objects they ought now to have in view. He would not promise that the first vessels going up the Zambesi would return laden with any thing but the flesh of the hippopotami – they could get any number of hippopotami hams – for they might not be able to get any thing else at present. A market must be made, for the natives were not yet in the habit of collecting produce. In Angola there was already a market; but on the east side of the country there was not even a market for bees’ wax. His men were called by the honey-bird, and found some hives, and from them they got abundance of honey. On the west side of the country the wax was kept; but on the east side there was no market for it. It was the same with ivory previous to his going to Lake Ngami, for it was left to rot on the ground. But the natives knew better now, and valued the ivory. (Applause.)

The MAYOR said that two questions had been handed to him. The first was – Would sheep live in the interior of Africa, and would it be desirable to send out any? The second – Had the natives any method of cleansing cotton?

Dr. LIVINGSTONE replied that the high lands had sheep upon them; but the African sheep did not produce wool – only hair. The goat seemed to produce a kind of wool which would be valuable in manufactures. He once saw a sheep with wool, upon Benguela, but the wool was not fine by any means. He found in the Cape Colony that the the woolled sheep were generally spreading to the north, and every year there was an increase in the exportation of wool. But, as he before said, the first thing to be done was to endeavour to get a way open, and then they would be better able to give an opinion as to what should be sent out to South Central Africa. As to the cleansing of cotton, he found on the west side that the natives used their fingers at only; but on the west side they used an iron roller to separate the pile from the seed.

The MAYOR said another question had been handed to him for Dr. Livingstone. It was – Is Angola a Portuguese convict settlement; if so, does it not destroy the morality of the place?

Dr. LIVINGSTONE answered that it was a convict settlement; and, what was very singular, as soon as the convicts arrived they were made soldiers. That surprised him more than anything else he saw in Angola. He know that English convicts, if sent to any colony, would not be made soldiers. A gentleman living in Loando once told him him (Dr. L.) that it was a remarkable fact that every night the convicts had possession of nearly all the fire-arms in Loando, and that the gunpowder was kept in the fort. The merchants were not allowed to keep any large quantities of powder on the premises. Nearly all the soldiers had been convicts, but not the officers. They were not such a set of bad men as might be expected, and the change that came over them he ascribed to the climate. He did not think it arose from religion. When he asked one of the officers about them, he told him that the men knew the hopelessness of escape, and the result was that they commenced turning over a new leaf. But that would apply to Australia, and convicts would be worse off in the interior of that colony, than in the interior of Africa. (Hear, hear.) The people of the country he (the distinguished lecturer) found to be simply clad; and they entertained a very great dread of cannon. One of the forts had two guns mounted on sticks, – they had no carriages, and it would be impossible to fire the guns. Yet that fort was protected by them. At Massangano there was only one gun, and that would fall to pieces, if fired. He would give them an instance of the great dread the natives entertained of guns. There was one place where the Portuguese placed a gun on the top of a hill, and some gentlemen from a ship going up there, loaded the gun, and fired it off by way of sport. The ball passed through the village and struck the house of a chief. From that time the whole of that fertile part of the country had been abandoned, and now when the natives had occasion to pass the gun they knelt at the foot of it. (Laughter.) The people of Angola were totally different from the Caffirs and those on the banks of Zambesi, and were comparatively mild. He supposed it was owing to the climate, but he did not state that with any degree of positiveness. It was however a fact that the natives of Angola were imbued with a mild spirit.

The MAYOR inquired if Dr. Livingstone could say whether the scarcity in England, at the present time, of bar wood and cam wood, which came from Angola, was owing to a falling off of those woods in that place?

Dr. LIVINGSTONE replied that he had not seen either of them when in Angola.

Mr. FAIRBAIRN.-I believe, Sir, that at one period of your life you acquired some knowledge of cotton. Do you think, from what you know of the plant, that the cotton in Africa is of commercial value? The pile – do you know what length it is?

Dr. LIVINGSTONE. – The pile was short – about half-an-inch.

Mr. FAIRBAIRN. – That is very short, because you know, three-quarters of an inch is considered short. My object is to ascertain whether the production of such a cotton is valuable to us.

Dr. LIVINGSTONE. – It is well known to all friends of the Angolese, that the cotton is of an inferior quality. Mr. Edmund Gabriel, the English Commissioner at Loando for the suppression of the slave trade, sent home to Lord Clarendon for a supply of superior cotton seed. He procured some from Washington and sent it to Angola. On the west coast there are still a few incorrigible slave-traders, and the ship in which the cotton was sent, by some means or other, came under the influence of one of these men. The cotton-seed was never afterwards seen; and thus they failed to get a supply of a better kind.

Mr. W. E. FORSTER (vice-chairman of the Bradford Chamber of Commerce) said that he had been asked to propose a resolution. He was sure the meeting would not separate without expressing its warm thanks to Dr. Livinstone for his explicit, able, clear, interesting, and instructive report of the commercial advantages of South Central Africa. That expression of thanks would have come better from somebody else, and he should not have allowed the Mayor to call upon him, but it occurred to him that it might be turned to some practical account. Perhaps the audience would pardon him for bringing before them a practical suggestion. Having had some conversation with Dr. Livingstone, and having heard from him previously what he had stated to the meeting, it occurred to him (Mr. Forster) that they might be able to do some good by passing a practical resolution showing the feelings of the Chambers of Commerce of Leeds and the district. (Hear, hear.) There could be but one opinion that the question of opening up South Central Africa was an exceedingly interesting and vital one, not only to the people of that country, to whom we still owed a debt of compassion for injuries we had inflicted in past time – but on account of its commercial advantages to ourselves. It was opening out a vast field for us. Our only hope of keeping up a productive trade was by looking out for fresh markets, and also by increased supply of raw material, – (hear, hear) – especially that one raw material, the restriction of which was threatening this country just now with one of the greatest disasters that could occur; and the high price Of cotton, in spite of the increased cultivation of it in America, was sufficient to awaken the attention of this country. The only chance of keeping the mills going in Manchester was by increasing the slaves in America, unless a fresh country were opened from whence we could draw supplies. It was not required that he should lay before them the advantages of attempting to open up a field in Central Africa for cotton; that would not and could not be done without an influx of English capital, and it would be hopeless to send it out unless the communication from the coast to the interior was made as easy and secure as possible. He thought the greatest difficulty would be, not where we might expect it – not from the natives – but from the civilised community which held the land between the interior and the sea. Dr. Livingstone had shown them that the rule of the Portuguese on the east coast was almost nominal, and they had lost their labourers. Still they did possess power on the river Zambesi, upon the coast, and in the interior. It struck him as quite possible that if English capitalists were to show a symptom of opening out the land, that the Portuguese might think we had no right to do so, and would prevent us from going up the river, which would throw great obstacles in the way of traffic. Dr. Livingstone was aware of this, and intended to go to Lisbon, and there endeavour to make arrangements with Portugal, before he returned to Africa. That would no doubt be attended with great results. Several men of high influence in Portugal were most anxious to increase the trade of Africa; and he hoped that the young King of Portugal, who had shown signs of being an enlightened monarch, would aid us in our endeavours. (Hear, hear.) He wished that meeting to pass a resolution requesting the various Chambers of Commerce to ask Lord Clarendon to aid Dr. Livingstons in his mission. The resolution was as follows:-

“That this joint meeting of the Chambers of Commerce of Leeds and Bradford and the worsted districts, being convinced (by the report made to them, by the Rev. Dr. Livingstone, of his discoveries in Central Africa, for which report they beg to tender him their warm thanks) that there is an opening for a large trade with that extensive region, provided access could be obtained by the natural water communication, – Resolved, that these two Chambers send respectively memorials to Lord Clarendon, requesting him to use his influence with the Portuguese Government to secure the free navigation of the Zambesi, and to give that freedom of transit, and facilities of commercial intercourse in the Portuguese colonies, on both the west and the east coast of Africa, which are necessary in order to develope the resources of these colonies themselves, as well as of the native districts.”

He had one more remark to make. Our previous intercourse with African natives had inflicted such evils upon them that they had reason to curse our commercial spirit. But he looked forward with great interest to our future trade with them, because the discoveries there had been made, not by those who were sent out to this west coast to suppress the horrible traffic in slaves, but by a man who went out, not to engage in trade, but for the highest possible purpose – that of converting the natives to Christianity. The future commerce these discoveries would lead to, would be conducted on those Christian principles which he trusted would always be upheld both in Africa and England. (Applause.)

Mr. FAIRBAIRN quite concurred in the remark of Mr. Forster that the high road into the interior of Africa must be secured, and the only way in which we could aid it was to strengthen the hands of the Foreign Office by memorializing the Government upon this occasion. He felt sure that we had at the present time a Foreign Secretary who would do all in his power to exert the influence of England, and more particularly to advance the commercial and trading interests of this country. (Hear, hear.) He had the greatest possible pleasure in seconding the resolution.

Mr. J. RAND (Bradford) said that he had much pleasure in taking part in the interesting proceedings of that day. The resolution which had been put into his hands was as follows:-

“That Lord Viecounit Goderich, and other members of the West Riding, and the members for Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax, be requested to present the above memorial to Lord Clarendon, and to express to his Lordship the views and wishes of this meeting.”

He had no doubt that the Noble Lord who was present, and who he was very happy to meet on that occasion – a feeling no doubt shared in by the whole assembly – (applause) – would comply with the wish expressed in that resolution, and that the members of the boroughs would have equal pleasure in using their influence in support of the memorialists. He could not sit down without expressing his thanks to the gentlemen connected with the Chamber of Commerce in Leeds for giving the members of the Bradford Chamber of Commerce an opportunity of meeting Dr. Livingstone on that interesting occasion,-for it had been an unexpected pleasure to many. They had endeavoured to get Dr. Livingstone to Bradford itself; and from what he had heard, since coming into Leeds, he hoped there was still a possibility of effecting an arrangement which would confer so much pleasure upon a very large population who were deeply interested in the subject which Dr. Livingstone had so ably treated that day. He knew that his arrangements for a week were made, but a most hearty and cordial welcome would await him in Bradford if he could find time to pay that town a visit. (Hear, hear.) The subject which had been brought before them was one of very great interest in itself, and especially so as affecting the manufacturing interests of this country in future; but it had been adverted to by Mr. Forster in a manner which rendered it unnecessary to say more upon it. He could, however, not forget the high and holy object for which Dr. Livingstone originally went into Africa. As a friend of Christian missions, he (Mr. Rand) would express the earnest hope that it might please God to enable him to renew that holy work for which he was so eminently fitted. He had not the pleasure of being personally acquainted with Dr. Livingstone, but he had had the gratification of reading of his researches in that country. He prayed God that he might be able to return to the natives of that part of the country of which he had given them so interesting an account; that he might return to them with the fulness of the blessing of the Gospel of Christ, and that the blessings of Christianity might precede the blessings of civilisation, as it was always intended to do. (Hear, hear.) They could not by civilisation make people necessarily happy; but they could, by spreading the truths of the Gospel, ensure their temporal and eternal happiness in the hearty reception of those truths. (Applause.) He doubted not that the time would come when the blessings of the Gospel being made known to that people, we should reap an abundant harvest in the spread of the gospel, both directly and indirectly – directly in promoting Christianity; indirectly in the development of those principles which could not fail to take place under the influence of Christianity. (Applause.)

Mr. T. W. GEORGE briefly seconded the resolution. He remarked that Dr. Livingstone had given them such a beautifully simple description of the country which he had traversed, that no one could for a moment doubt the value of securing a communication with the interior. Some portions of the country were in the hands of the Portuguese, but Dr. Livingstone had formed a high opinion of them. We must endeavour to induce Government to encourage, as well as they could, commerce with South Central Africa; and our best course was to depute that duty to the Noble Lord who was present, his colleague for the West Riding, and the Members for Leeds, Bradford, aud Halifax. He felt confident that they would at once put their shoulders to the wheel, and lay before Government the necessity of taking a step which a large community in Yorkshire saw was desirable. (Applause.)

Viscount GODERICH, M.P., was received with loud cheers on rising to move the next resolution. He could assure them, he said, that he would have the greatest pleasure in doing his best to forward the wish which had been expressed in the resolution to which they had just agreed. He had attended there that day from feeling a very deep interest in the subject to be brought before the meeting by Dr. Livingstone; and although he had high expectations as to the importance of the meeting, and the interesting nature of the subject, and of what Dr. Livingstone would have to say to them; yet he confessed to them that these expectations had been surpassed. (Hear, hear.) He thought the information which had been laid before them by the Rev. Dr. was most valuable; and they had only to listen to his narrative to be convinced that they might rely implicitly upon every statement he made. (Hear, hear.) There was a simplicity and an earnestness in his words which must have carried conviction to all minds. (Hear, hear, and applause.) If that were so – if the facts which had been laid before them contained a correct statement of the natural character of the country which Dr. Livingstone had traversed – then surely those facts were of the greatest importance to this country in various points of view. (Hear, hear.) It would be presumptuous in him, in the presence of that assembly, to speak of the commercial importance of the country which Dr. Livingstone had described. The gentlemen present were much better judges on that point than he could possibly be; and he had only to express his own entire concurrence in those views which had been enunciated by the speakers who had preceded him. (Hear, hear.) He thought there were many signs in the present day which must convince them that it was of vital importance to the interests of commerce in this country that, within the next few years, they should be able to extend their present markets and open new ones. (Hear, bear.) He was convinced that we must use every exertion for that important end; and it would be fatal supineness if we neglected any market which Providence had opened to us by the labours and discoveries of Dr. Livingstone. But it was not only in a commercial point of view that these discoveries were important. (Hear, hear, hear.) They were important politically as well as commercially. When they looked at the vast amount of industry in the neighbouring county of Lancashire dependent upon the supply of cotton, and viewed all the circumstances under which that supply could be obtained, they must at once perceive that it was of the greatest importance, politically speaking, that they should have the means of drawing their cotton supply from various sources, and not be dependent mainly, or almost mainly, upon one; so that they would in future be independent of local circumstances, which might deprive them of their raw material by cutting off its source of supply. (Applause.) But he thought that they should not contemplate the facts which had been laid before them by Dr. Livingstone purely in a selfish point of view. Doubtless these facts held out to them commercial attractions and political advantages: but if they wished to bring the enterprise Dr. Livingstone desired them to engage in to a successful issue, they ought to enter into it in that spirit of which he had given them Christian reasons and example. (Applause.) It was important to open new markets – it was important to cultivate cotton in the valley of the Zambesi – it was important to develope the commercial resources of Central Africa; but it was of far higher importance that they should carry Christianity and civilisation, as the handmaids of commerce, into that country upon which, in past times, we had inflicted so many wrongs. (Hear.) Therefore, he had the greatest pleasure in co-operating with the Chambers of Commerce of this district, and doing his duty to his constituents, by bringing their views before Her Majesty’s Government, and impressing upon Lord Clarendon the importance of communicating with the Portuguese Government as to opening the navigation of the Zambesi. (Applause.) That was a most important preliminary to any commercial undertaking in that country; for if they could not effect that it would be vain to hope that English capital would be engaged in any enterprise such as that upon which Dr. Livingstone wished them to enter. (Hear, hear.) The Portuguese held the mouths of the inland navigation; and if they should, by a short-sighted policy, endeavour to close the navigation against commercial enterprise, or levy heavy duties upon the importation and exportation of goods, they would effectually strip us of the advantages which we hoped to gain. And in the uncertainty of what the Portuguese might do, it would be at the present time unwise for any cautious capitalist to enter upon the enterprise. But if the Government took up the matter with spirit, he could not doubt that they would be successful; for he thought that it could not be a difficult task to convince the Portuguese Government that it would be as much to their advantage as ours that the navigation of the Zambesi should be free. (Hear, hear.) As Dr. Livingstone had told them, the Portuguese had done very little indeed; and in spite of the reports which must have reached them of Dr. Livingstone’s discoveries, there was no information of the Portuguese doing or attempting anything in consequence. Surely the Portuguese would not be so selfish, while they themselves did nothing, as to prevent other nations from making an effort? (Hear, hear.) While, therefore, this was a necessary preliminary to commercial enterprise, it was all object in which they could all agree; for it was not imposing upon our Government a task which was very difficult, or which was not within their province justly to undertake. (Hear, hear.) He felt confident that his Hon. Colleague, Mr. Denison, would be happy to co-operate with him, and that the Members of Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax would also join in their efforts; and the Members for Leeds and Halifax – for they had two Cabinet Ministers in Yorkshire – ought to have a very considerable influence upon the Cabinet. (Hear, hear, and applause.) He had now another task to perform, and he would perform it briefly; for after the interesting speeches which they had heard from men who had gained their knowledge from long effort and honourable endeavour, he was sure the meeting would not be inclined to listen to him. He had been requested to present a resolution to the meeting, and he had great pleasure in submitting it to them. The object of the resolution was to call on the meeting to agree in impressing upon Her Majesty’s Government the importance of taking another step besides that embodied in the resolution to which they had just agreed. That step was one, the importance of which had been recognised by the meeting of the British Association in Dublin, and the meeting held some time ago in Manchester, and attended by Dr. Livingstone. It was to call upon Her Majesty’s Government to send an expedition and a steamer up the Zambesi, to impress upon the natives the advantages of engaging in legitimate commerce, and to induce them to abandon the slave trade. There could be no doubt whatever of the importance of that measure, and no objection, he took it, could be made to any step of that kind, upon the ground that it would be exceeding the office and province of Government. (Hear, hear.) The expedition would merely be an exploring one. (Applause.) No one could fancy that we wished to obtain territorial dominion in that country. England had dominion enough already. (Hear, hear, hear.) But we had an object, important to every country, as well as to ourselves, in proportion to their commercial interests – the object of spreading commerce and civilisation throughout these vast territories. He thought they would be right in pressing this subject upon Her Majesty’s Government. (Applause.) And they should do so now, in order to show the Government that the commercial community of the country were agreed in thinking that the discoveries of Dr. Livingstone were of paramount importance; that they should be further prosecuted, and the utmost advantage taken of them; for in the countries which Dr. Livingstone had visited, there was every prospect that cotton could be grown, that iron and coal might be found, and that the resources of industry and wealth only waited to be developed. (Hear, hear.) For though, in answer to that most pertinent question put by Mr. Fairbairn, Dr. Livingstone stated that the cotton fibre was short, yet, by the importation of better seed or a better means of cultivation, that difficulty might be remedied – at all events, it was worth trying. (Hear, hear.) They had a country, fertile, but hitherto unknown, now first opened to the world by an enterprise of the most Christian kind. When Dr. Livingstone had done his part so well, it became them to do theirs by seconding his efforts as far as in them lay. It was their interest – it was more than their interest it was their highest, and one of their most important duties. (Applause.) He had great pleasure in moving the following resolution:-

“That this meeting, believing that it would tend greatly to promote the commercial interests of this country to induce the natives of Central Africa to cultivate and export cotton and the other productions of their soil, desires by every means in its power to support the representations made by the British Association to Lord Clarendon in favour of a steam expedition up the Zambesi, for the purpose of impressing the natives in the interior with the advantages they would derive from legitimate commerce and from the suppression of the slave trade.” (Loud cheers.)

Mr. R. MILLIGAN (Bradford) cordially seconded the resolution.

Mr. EDWD. BAINES said he was sure that the meeting would regret to separate without according an expression of thanks to Dr Livingstone for the very valuable communication made to them that day. In moving a resolution to enable the meeting to express its thanks, it was unnecessary to enter into the character of Dr. Livingstone’s discoveries. It was most interesting to observe that whilst he had begun his labours by attending to the highest interests of the people of Africa, from the purest motives, he had not neglected their temporal interests. (Hear, hear.) He had much pleasure in moving-

“That the best thanks of the meeting be given to the Rev. Dr. Livingstone for his very interesting and able communication on the important commercial resources of South and Central Africa.”

Mr. IRWIN seconded the vote of thanks, which was conveyed to the lecturer in loud and reiterated cheering.

Dr. LIVINGSTONE said he was exceedingly gratified for such a kind expression of feeling as to his labours. He assured them that their opinions would have the effect of stimulating him to go on in the same course he had been pursuing. We could not expect great results at once – it. was only by hard work we could effect anything in this world. (Hear, hear.) His great desire was to see the work begun, and he had no doubt as to the future. We must begin the work in Africa in a Christian manner, not falling down and worshipping the superstitions of the natives, but coming boldly forward and saying, “We are Christians, we believe in our own Christianity, and we don’t believe in yours.” (Applause.) He had always found it best to appear in his own proper character, and if we had done that in India, we should never have seen the dirt and degradation which existed there. He found he was always respected in proportion to appearing amongst the natives as a white man and a white Christian. All our future efforts, he hoped, would be conducted by Englishmen and English Christians in their own proper charecter. (Applause.) He was extremely obliged to the audience for their kindness, and he was sure they were all heartily welcome to the imperfect speech he had made.

The Mayor of Bradford (H. Brown, Esq.) then took the chair, and Mr. Ald. J. BATESON moved a vote of thanks to his Worship the Mayor of Leeds, for presiding on that occasion.

Mr. FAIRBAIRN seconded the vote, and it was carried by acclamation.

The MAYOR acknowledged the compliment, and the proceedings terminated at a quarter past three o’clock.

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