The old ones are always the best ones. In the Dresden Files the Old Ones are demons, or dark gods who ruled the world before mankind. They were apparently banished from our reality. The Fifth Law of Magic prohibits the summoning of both the Old Ones, and their foot soldiers the Walkers, or Outsiders.
In old news, Mr Reid of the Economist in El Mundo:
P. ¿Es la política lingüística un lastre para la economía catalana?
R. Sí. En dos sentidos. En primer lugar, laboralmente: ¿cómo va a instalarse un profesional en Cataluña si sabe que sus hijos tienen que recibir su educación en catalán? Un economista catalán me decía que los trabajadores que llegaron de Andalucía y Extremadura para trabajar en el siglo XIX elegirían hoy cualquier otra región de España. En segundo lugar, los catalanes desperdician la ventaja comparativa que supone un idioma como el español, que hablan más de 400 millones de personas.
Exactly, so where next? I’ve been spending more time in France recently, and Valencia’s fast pulling ahead of Barcelona with mega projects (the Catalan Generalitat could never have accepted the Berklee annex, which believes that the three big languages in music are going to be English, Chinese and Spanish) and smaller stuff, although, like all the marginal fiefdoms, it’s as corrupt as hell. I fancy Madrid for various reasons, but someone not a million miles from here went to school in Barcelona and believes that the capital is populated by cannibal zombies in army uniforms. That’s Aldershot, my dear.
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Pío Baroja got pretty damn close to the Catalunacy of José Luis Espejo in La dama errante.
I did love the week I spent in Valencia last spring, they seem much less crazy about the language than they are in Barcelona.
Spanish an international language of music? Have you heard the kind of music that gets Spanish lyrics? Good heavens, no thanks!
Also, this music place in Valencia is being built by SGAE?! No wonder they’re adding €20 onto every item that looks like it might contain some storage. End the disk tax now!
@2: I refer you to Melodias Pizarras
@3: They’re taxing Catalans to subsidise Valencians, that’s what they’re doing!
It’s being paid for with the foreign royalties they haven’t disbursed since 2001. Whatever – more bad music perfectly played.
“I did love the week I spent in Valencia last spring, they seem much less crazy about the language than they are in Barcelona.”
You mean that Valencian/Catalan is dead in Valencia already and people have given up in their own culture and language.
Valencia, then the Balearics then Catalonia to follow, it all has been written before. When that happens, you lot will be happy…
“En primer lugar, laboralmente: ¿cómo va a instalarse un profesional en Cataluña si sabe que sus hijos tienen que recibir su educación en catalán?”
Apparently the 1 million immigrants (included Anglosaxon expats who, by definition, are never immigrants) who have arrived in Catalonia during the last 10 years were totally unaware of that fact and despite the shock, they decided to stay.
“Un economista catalán me decía que los trabajadores que llegaron de Andalucía y Extremadura para trabajar en el siglo XIX elegirían hoy cualquier otra región de España.”
This is proven by the fact that millions of Sapniards in the 1950s and 60s migrated to Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, France and other countries which, as those, have Spanish as official language.
However, most probably today, they would remain in Andalusia and Extremadura to add a couple of points to the number of public servants.
“En segundo lugar, los catalanes desperdician la ventaja comparativa que supone un idioma como el español, que hablan más de 400 millones de personas”
I hope Mr Reid will come to Catalonia to round up all those Catalans who do not have the competitive advantage of speaking Spanish. He may be able to fit all of them them in his back pocket.
Even despicable Catalan creatures like Rab and I master Spanish most probably better than the average Spaniard.
I agree and disagree Ian; Mr Reid of the Economist is talking shite, a poor rural population will urbanise to wherever there are jobs and inside toilets.
However, the current linguistic policies discourage Spaniards from migrating to Catalonia (one sometimes feels that that’s kind of the point), and often shortens the stay of skilled foreigners (how many Guiri computer engineers or whatever have you heard complaining of lack of opportunity fr non-Catalan speakers?).
Economically speaking, Catalan is bad for Catalonia.
I hate to disappoint Mr Rabbit, but the authentic culture of Valencia is Moorish.
Given your advanced years, I’m surprised you didn’t point out that Mike R was the DJ who tried to ban Frankie goes to Hollywood.
Why is that those taking the most offence are emigrants from Catalonia?
Please advise.
@9 now, now, let’s be fair. We all know before the Moors it was the Romans, so I say we should all start speaking latin again! Even those cannibal zombies in army uniforms!
Catalan wrecking Catalonia’s household? Why does Finland do so well in economic tems, then? The only de facto language in primary & secondary schools there is Finnish, with some Swedish thrown in for good measure, to account for the 6% Swedish-speaking minority. Neither can be called an international tongue, tough, and yet the economy’s booming with Finland systematically achieving top scores on most performance rankings. This applies to Scandinavian economies all and sundry, except Iceland on the last few weeks owing to the credit crunch, of course. Small languages and yet powerful economies.
I suppose the problem lies elsewhere, in face of this evidence. Speaking a so-called “world language” -whatever that is – is no guarantee of success, otherwise most Spanish-speaking countries would be basking in prosperity and they’re far from reaching that stage. Not a single one of them – and there’s plenty- holds or has ever held in the last 200 years -a leading position in any realm of human activity, be it the economy, science, the arts, etc. Hence it’s rather naive to expect the Catalans to shed their language and culture -which are an integral part of the European fabric, Catalan culture can only function as such as long as it’s embedded in an overall European framework, unlike, say, French, English, Spanish, or even German cultural discourse – in order to fully embrace Spanishness, which historically has tended to scornfully turn its back on the European mainstream.
Sometimes, a ‘lesser’ language and culture -see above and add the Low Countries- can be, paradoxically, a guarantee of success, particularly when cross-state borders become increasingly porous. Native users of such cultures cannot possibly be brought up with the idea that theirs is a universal code that applies or should apply to the entire world, since “foreignness” effectively happens around the corner already, as it were, and on an everyday basis.
Besides, a full command of foreign languages is far more frequent among members of these communities -all of the above plus the Catalans- than among speakers of ‘world languages’.
Dan: In all the Nordic countries, skilled professionals (university lecturers or engineers for example)are contracted without regard to their proficiency in the local language, the quality of their work being more important than linguistic factors. Scandinavians speak English without any reservations or soul-searching.
In Catalonia, incompetents are paid a premium for speaking Catalan while non-Catalan speakers are kept in their place by the level C requirement.
What surprises me is that the ethnic supremacists think that the arguments which failed to convince a considerable majority of guiris will now suddenly work on an interested, international audience. You need a new gameplan, folks.
Trevor,
I just visited the Holocaust museum in Jerusalem amd I am getting tired of you describing Catalan nationalists as ethnic supermacists or even stronger epithets.
The fact that we have somewhat incompetent politicians in Catalonia, does not give you the right to insult us the way you do. Nothing we have done, nor we will do, can remotely equate to what you imply and I take personal offence.
It is incredible that a solid line border around a group of what you call “ethnic supremacist”, magically converts them into patriots and not anymore despicable nationalists.
By the way, I was living in Singapore whem a similar article about Singapore was published by The Economist 15 years ago. The magazine was sequestered by the Singaporean government.
I have never read so much nonsense. These bunch of resentful dudes wants us to believe that the competitive advantage of an economy rests on its language policy, unbelievable.
So Catalan is a problem for Catalonia, but Flemish/Dutch does not seem to be a problem for Flanders, or Danish for Denmark and so on. What a lot of ballooney!
I agree with Rab that Catalan language is NOT the problem in Catalonia, the problem is the incompetent Catalan government.
Actually Catalan could be used as a competitive advantage if the country were led by a catalo-IAN politic-IAN with vision.
The key of success is on one side moving from the current bilingualism to trilingualism (here we are not making any progress due to the bad policies of our government and the inability to teach of many of our English teachers, some of who like to comment in this forum) and on the other side a smart use of the Catalan language.
This smart use should be based on the principle that Catalan customers have the right to receive services in their own language, and all companies offering services in Catalonia should provide them also in Catalan (breaking the current collusion among many companies). In order to create economy of scales and thanks to the extensive knowledge of Spanish, Catalonia (and the Balearic Islands and Valencia) could also provide services in Spanish for those territories and the rest of Spain.
Even today, the fact that every Catalan can communicate also in Spanish, makes moving to Catalonia, far easier that moving to many other countries with minority languages.
The vast majority of expats in Catalonia, put their kids in private schools anyway.
No temporary expats going to the Netherlands, Danmark or Finland put their kids in public schools in the local language, none.
If Catalonia really becomes one day a trilingual society, only bad politicians will be able to stop it.
An extract for those who like to blah-blah-blah without knowing what they are talking about.
From the Times Higher Education
“Why one academic went Dutch
11 November 1994
THES Editorial
Radical reform is imminent for Dutch higher education. Jon Henley weighs up the pros and cons and talks to Roderick Lyall, who has just taken up a chair of English literature at Amsterdam’s Free University.
Australian-born Roderick Lyall moved to Amsterdam this summer to take up the chair of English literature at Amsterdam’s Free University, after 19 years teaching Scottish literature at the University of Glasgow.
……
Following a major controversy five years ago, when wild rumours circulated that the education ministry planned to scrap Dutch as the principal language of instruction at universities, the government instigated regular inspections of the extent to which foreign languages are used in university teaching.
The government’s aim now is twofold: to ensure Dutch is not under threat as the main language of instruction, but also that students’ foreign-language abilities are developed adequately throughout their course.
…….
Like all non-Dutch university teachers, Professor Lyall has a contractual requirement to become competent in Dutch within two years. “That’s perfectly understandable,” he says. “My teaching will be in English, but the admin is all in Dutch. If you have to fight your department’s corner, you have to be able to communicate in the language of the country you’re in.”
But, despite the Netherlands’ concern to improve students’ foreign-language abilities, non-Dutch academics will not necessarily find it any easier to land more than a visiting post here.”
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=154376§ioncode=26
The open society and its enemies:
Thanks for the link, Ian. I’ve always suspected the Dutch of being closet “ethnic supremacists” along with the Flemings, the Catalans, the Basques, the Irish, the Welsh, the Corsicans, the Bretons and similar illiberal, tribal scum that threaten to poison democracy all throughout Europe, and the values it’s predicated on.
As you know, the only groups currently fighting this ethno-fascist flood are non-nationalists from Northern Ireland such as the Orange Order and the likes of UPD -whose logo you can find at the top of this page- and Ciudadanos, who against all odds and with the help from powerful far-right media based in Madrid, Spain, are doing their best to stem the tide of fascism and extreme racialism that has engulfed the whole of Catalonia.
I’m now writing these lines from a Catalan concentration camp for Spanish speakers (otherwise known as ‘state schools’) where I’m undergoing constant interrogation under duress disguised as geography and history A level courses, a perfidious ploy used by the Cataloony ethnocracy in order to hoodwink the outside world into believing this is just another part of Europe. However, I’ve managed to highjack one of their computers, the Catalans being so obsessed with language and similar trifles such as ruining decent bread by squashing raw tomatoes into it and drenching it in olive oil, that they don’t know f*** about proxys, or about anything else except human towers or silly folk dances, of course. Talk of boring Sundays in the Shankill, I didn’t come to live in Spain to put up with this kind of folksy trash and have my eardrums tortured day in and day out by airheads bleating away in this so-called language. It’s all playing havoc with my Spanish skills. Their accent does get to you atthe end of the day, and you end up sounding like a real Pollack -or should I say pillock- despite all the efforts to keep this pest at bay.
Our future in the current circumstances looks, to say the least, pretty uncertain. Europe has abandoned us to our fate, apart from a few intrepid journalists who put their lives on the line in order to unveil the truth. The US is backtracking into isolationism. The Catalans will soon invade the Balerics and Valencia, bringing about the 4th Reich. What will come next, the Anschluss of Southern France, probably, all the way to the gates of Paris, Greater Catalonia from Guardamar to Issy-les-Moulineaux, as it were? World peace and the lives of our children are in danger, but we can still stop this madness. Yes, we can!. Make sure you remember our plight come the next election (please see above for orientation)
A better description, Trevor, for Catalan nationalists, is Ethnic Onanists. They only convince each other by repeating over and over the same tenuous analogies.
Nationalism should always be a dirty word for people who believe in an Open Society.
UnHab,
I am afraid that onanism is a shared value between those siding Catalan nationalism and those siding Spanish nationalism like Trevor, Boynamedsue and you. That’s why we are all so good in left hand typing.
It is also fascinating to witness that the lack of borders turns something obvious into tenuous.
Actually I’m naturally left-handed.
The comparison with Holland is ridiculous as:
A: Dutch is the ONLY official language of the Netherlands. Catalan is co-official with Spanish.
B: The teacher is only required to learn Dutch, not to speak at level C, or be able to teach in Dutch.
C: We are talking about level C as a barrier, this man was hired with no knowledge of the “llengua propia”
It’s charming in a nostalgic kind of way to see Ian and Rarebit and all the others repeating the arguments that have failed them in the past–it’s a bit pointless arguing about all this when 85% of inward investment is (let’s make that “was”) going to the Madrid region, despite central government only having (I think) 18% of total budget. The world (with the possible exception of strategic allies like Kosovo) has made up its mind, and the The Economist article is mere confirmation of that fact. Ian’s right that the present Catalan government is considerably more incompetent than its predecessor, but its fundamental policy errors are the same.
Trevor is clearly right handed and has an amazing ability to type with the left hand at the same time.
Thanks God we live in a virtual world.
Ian, if you want me to be your campaign manager you’re going to have to cool it a bit.
Actually what boynamedsue’s standing up for is the ‘constitutional right’ – according to the Spanish 1978 constitution, well known for having been ignored by a majority of Basque voters and drafted against a backdrop of mess-room rumblings – of non-Catalans to disregard the Catalan language altogether when settling down in Catalan-speaking areas within Spain. Perhaps by sheer accident this also happens to be the main thrust of the “manifiesto por una lengua común” promoted by the likes of Rosa Diez’s UPD -Trevor’s fellow party members-, philosopher Fernando Savater, formerly a self-declared anarchist and currently one of the chief engineers of a particularly rabid and worrying kind of nationalistic consensus in Spain- and Ciudadanos de Cataluña, of course. These people may all call themselves left of centre plus defenders of the rights of the ‘Spanish-speaking working class’ in Catalonia -this incidentally is the stage where the guy who highjacked/’qui a detourné’ Johnny Cash’s intellectual legacy meets evergreen Alejandro Lerroux-but as a matter of fact they do the bidding of the Spanish Right, and I mean the Right, not even the centre-right, a fact that should be clear to anyone logging onto the websites of Libertaddigital and suchlike.
Ultranationalists cum hate-speech mongers like Losantos get substantial funding from the Spanish Catholic Church, hardly a likely endorsement for progressive politics by any stretch of the imagination. Only last Thursday Ciudadanos unsuccessfully tried to disrupt a 30.000-strong demo in Barcelona several teachers’ unions had called to demand the withdrawal of a bill further curtailing the right to public education in Catalonia. This lot are merely a bunch of disgruntled falangists posing as would-be martyrs of Catalan ethno-fascism or what have you. They’re growing pretty desperate though, since they’re running out of cheap stunts and it looks like they can’t dupe anybody any longer, except, that is, a few self-proclaimed ‘guiris’ -I loathe this racist term, btw- who have embarked on a ‘non nationalist’ ethnic crusade of their own for reasons best known to themselves.. These ‘martyrs of Hispanity’ know they’re going under fast and that come the next election they’ll get chucked out of the regional parliament for good. Hence the gallons of vitriol they keep spewing forth.
There are several Davids commenting here. It might be helpful to clarify that the one without the link is the mad one.
Hey guys (since gals show their superior intelligence by not even bothering to comment on these subjects), let’s cut the crap.
This Tuesday I am back to Amsterdam and I will go back to the sex-shop where I went last time and buy a six pack (Trevor, Boynamedsue, Unhab, Daniel, Rab and I) of hightech comforting devices that will free up our right hands (left for BNS). If you buy six, they give you a 30% discount and a free inflatable doll (that I will donate to the Davids).
Photo swap?
No need. I look pretty much like my icon.
Yeah, right, Trevor, I’m bonkers and you’re sane. Suit yourself if it makes you happy. Won’t make your point any more plausible, though.
Ian, do a me favour, please: ditch those toxic dolls and buy us a bottle of decent Jenever instead. Hollandse Graanjenever should do the trick.
Thanks,
David
PS: On second thoughts, do send the dolls to BNS and Trevor, but please have them clad in Catalan folk garments beforehand. This might help relieve some tension in BCN’s culturally-challenged expat community. Sane they may be, but they certainly have a sado-maso bent.
And don’t you forget my favourite tipple.
Next, please. I’m enjoying this . . .
One at a time for the plastic ladies from the Netherlands, please. Senior citizens too.
In the films Ian sends me it’s never one at a time.
Porn flicks is to sex as UPyD hype is to Spanish swing voters = pure make believe for gullible sods
I recommend David blowing his nationalist load with “Les Exxcursionistes Calentes”, the first “nationalist porno” in Catala, subsidized by the Generalitat, and dedicated to the mustachioed one himself, el senyor Carod-Rovira.
I personally thought it sucked, no pun intended.
Sorry, can’t contribute my own review there, dear UnHab, porn of whichever ethnicity really bores both espardenyes and barretina off this nationalist.
Still, I supose watching potbellied Carod-Rovira cavorting with a squad of Catalan master-race Brownies beats interfering with one’s posterior duct while endeavouring to make out the subtext of ‘Cuéntame’ or any of the masterpieces shown in ‘Cine de barrio’.
I suppose ‘it sucks’ means ‘it’s rubbish’, right? I’ve always wondered where the expression came from.
The first time I heard ‘school sucks’ or suchlike I thought it had something to do with a general dislike of socks in North America. Fear not, I’ve since been disabused of that notion.
@ David: it’s good you’ve sorted out the difference between ‘suck’ and ‘sock’… I had that once and it led to some terrible discrepancies.
I’ve found American English to be a fascinating topic since I first happened upon the word ‘ladybug’, which, would you believe it, is AmE for ‘ladybird’.
Since much to my own regret I’ve never been able to cross the pond, most of my practical knowledge stems from watching American films, as I suppose is the case with most other people.
Nevertheless, it took me a while to work out the sock/suck conundrum. Thankfully, though, no major inconveniences were involved. And now they´re closing down that ominous facility anyway.
I base all my knowledge of America on the music of Royal Trux, the films of the Coen brothers (and Will Smith) and the books of William Burroughs.
I love it!
I’ve got some dollars upstairs. Maybe I’ll love them again one day.